Paiste - Budget to pro

Davenhurst · #1 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 03:21 PM

Just a thought I had a while back - I'm really intrigued by Paiste cymbals but they're not readily available in the UK. I mean, getting hold of them is no trouble but there's nowhere near me that I can go and spend an afternoon trying them out.

I'd like to know how the models stack up against each other in terms of budget range all the way to pro. I know a lot of it is down to taste and debate, but this is an invitation to generalise wildly. For example, part of a list for Sabian would look like:

B8
AAX
Vault

etc. etc. whatever. You get my drift. I know little about Paiste so it's just for a starting point. Once we've got a list together, I'd love some descriptions of the sounds from each range from drummers with experience playing them.

Maybe it would be useful to do a list of each manufacturer's ranges, very helpful to a beginner I'd imagine.

AvengedDrummer · #2 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 08:53 PM

Hmmm I know nothing about Paiste cymbals in terms of the rank in quality. But Ill do a ranking for Zildjian cymbals.
-from lowest quality/cheapest to top dollar-
ZBT
ZXT
ZXT titanium
ZHT
(after this its pretty much based on your opinion)
Avedis Zildjian
A customs
Z customs
K
K custom
K constantinople

those are pretty much all the general divisions of Zildjian. If I missed something tell me.... I know they have the F/X line too, thats not really a big mention. But for me K constantinoples are the top of the heap in terms of quality and how much money you'll have to shell out to get one.

greyno3 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 06:02 AM

Buy Paiste Signature's. Don't waste your hard earned money on trash can lids. Sabians ARE Zildijans. They are brothers. They got in an argument in the late 70's and one of them moved to Canada and took the formulas to start Sabian. S.A.B.I.A.N. are the first letters of his kids. The Z&S cymbals you buy in the store are not the same as the ones in the recording studio. You'll spend countless hours searching for zilds or sabians that sound right. Then you get home and they don't match cymbals you already wasted time and money on. Paiste Sigs are what they are. PERFECT! You can just go in and buy a FAST CRASH and know it will match.I spent the first 20+ years (1968-present) using Zildian till my brother got the first Sigs off the line in 1989-1990. I changed real quick.....

Davenhurst · #4 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 08:47 AM

Cool, I really like what I've heard of some Paiste sigs. I'll hunt some down.

Saying that, I also really like some Sabians, and some Zildjians, and some others, and some others again. That's why I have Ks sitting alongside Istanbuls. I don't mind spending countless hours searching, it's part of what makes it all worthwhile and if they sound right they sound right. Maybe that'll change when I get into Paistes, I admit I have little experience of them.

I think it's ok to make a clear distinction between Zildjian and Sabian, they make different cymbals and that's enough to make them worth discussing as separate entities. Sabians are Zildjians if you look at the point where the company split historically, but there are differences. In fact there are differences across any manufacturer's range, so you can't really even say Zildjians are Zildjians or Sabians are Sabians. Granted you could say 18" A Custom Crashes always sound basically the same, but that's true of any company, to differing degrees. I'm interested in all cymbals, even if I don't like a lot of them.

Anyway.... I'd still like to see a list of how the Paiste models range from budget to pro, I'm just after an objective bunch of cold, hard data for now (ok, I know that's difficult because it's such a personal and emotional thing etc. etc.), just a list like AvengedDrummers Zildjian list will suffice for now, then we can tear into it and discuss what makes one better than the other.

AvengedDrummer · #5 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 10:44 AM

Alright, heres what I got off of their website...
-from budget to pro-
101 brass
201 bronze
PST 3
PST 5
Alpha
(after this I belive its opinionated)
Giant Beat
Noise Works (the FX line)
Rude
2002
Signature reflector
Signature
New Signature
Traditionals

Hope that helps man. Heres the link if you want to check it out yourself. http://www.paiste.com/products/cymbals/default.php

gyutae · #6 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 11:22 AM

I feel like Paiste lacks behind Zildjian and Sabian in terms of popularity or just people knowing about them. Is it a marketing or advertising issue? I've never heard any negative things about Paiste and yet no one really buys them. I would love to learn more about them as well.

greyno3 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 12:49 PM

Doesn't Phil Collins/Genesis play sigs.? If I remember right, he was on the waiting list just after my brother to get the new sigs back in 1989. I did the same thing back in the 70's. You saw pics of drummers on Zildijian but in the studio they used Paiste to record.

The Signature Reflector sounds kin of like the discontinued Sound Formula line. They are the same cymbal but made in West Germany instead of Switzerland.

Davenhurst · #8 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyutae

I feel like Paiste lacks behind Zildjian and Sabian in terms of popularity or just people knowing about them. Is it a marketing or advertising issue? I've never heard any negative things about Paiste and yet no one really buys them. I would love to learn more about them as well.

I think Paistes are generally marketed as a bit more sophisticated, people seem to know about them but Zildjian and Sabian are just everywhere, and they can afford to pay top dollar for endorsers. Paiste also have their share of endorsers but the unique character of the cymbals is part of their appeal and marketing strategy - Zildjian and Sabian don't go for that angle so much.

You could argue that by using the most famous drummers of the time to endorse your product, you can exploit the newbie market and aim a low budget range at the kids who want to emulate someone from their favourite band. Then you've got a generation on your side who will start to have more expendable income in a few years so they can get their hands on the actual high-end ranges their heroes use, as well as being loyal to a brand.

Of course, there are lots of arguments for getting kids interested and involved in the world of drumming, it's definitely a good thing. Perhaps it's not a case of exploitation but one of common interest and a creative approach to the world.

I haven't really thought about it enough, it's too easy to be cynical where big companies are involved but it's just as easy to get misty eyed about a shared passion. Let the debate commence.

Davenhurst · #9 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyno3

Doesn't Phil Collins/Genesis play sigs.? If I remember right, he was on the waiting list just after my brother to get the new sigs back in 1989. I did the same thing back in the 70's. You saw pics of drummers on Zildijian but in the studio they used Paiste to record.

The Signature Reflector sounds kin of like the discontinued Sound Formula line. They are the same cymbal but made in West Germany instead of Switzerland.

Not sure about Phil Collins and Paiste, I know he's into his Sabian - but he's certainly been playing for a long time. Will do some reading......

What can you recommend for a fairly heavy crash from the sig line? What can I expect to hear from it? I'm intrigued.

Davenhurst · #10 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvengedDrummer

Alright, heres what I got off of their website...
-from budget to pro-
101 brass
201 bronze
PST 3
PST 5
Alpha
(after this I belive its opinionated)
Giant Beat
Noise Works (the FX line)
Rude
2002
Signature reflector
Signature
New Signature
Traditionals

Hope that helps man. Heres the link if you want to check it out yourself. http://www.paiste.com/products/cymbals/default.php

Cool, thanks. It's sometimes hard to judge from an official website because companies never seem to write things like "Here's our worst range of cymbals for really hard-up beginners." I'd love it if they did.