Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered

Drum Master 1 · #21 (**permalink**) 02-01-2010, 03:12 AM

I have some affinity towards Sabian cymbals, they seam to have less of a jarring sound when you put them under stress.

I know they're made of a softer alloy, so maybe it's because they have less tin or nickel?... What ever the reason, generally they're easy on the ear, and when you overload them they don't seem to produce that unmusical droning effect some other brands do... I can't mention names because I'm under notice from the moderator to stop rubbishing brand names, but I Zink you know which ones I'm referring to...wink wink.

**dtxtremeiiispecial** · #22 (**permalink**) 02-01-2010, 03:56 AM

As you can tell by my ID here, I play electronic drums. AND CYMBALS!

Gus · #23 (**permalink**) 02-03-2010, 09:49 PM

lol , It keeps the noise down and you can play past 9:00!

Drum Master 1 · #24 (**permalink**) 02-03-2010, 10:59 PM

I agree, they're great for practicing... but the cymbal pads reveal the transient delay flaw in electronic systems, which reveals itself even when using headphones.

Tom toms and bass drum sounds are awesome though... especially with ROLAND gear.

Playing electronic drums live though... rely very much on the quality of amp and speakers.

After fiddling around on different systems in local music shops (where I spend most of my lunch breaks) I have often thought that the deal set up would be... Top of the range Roland electronic drums... in combination with closely miked real cymbals, and wide dynamic range speakers to handle sub bass frequencies and high frequency horns... Now that would be awesome.

If I only had the time... but alas I can only but dream... cause I work 8 days a week.

**dtxtremeiiispecial** · #25 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 12:25 AM

Well, I play electronic drums and cymbals because my wife gets migraines. I laid off drums for a lot of years because acoustic drums and migraines don't mix (and I was busy).

In my opinion the Yamaha DTXTREMEIII SPECIAL kits sounded far better than the kits on the Rolands. I played 'em side by side in the same store in November. I went into the store to buy Rolands -- I had been drooling over those mesh heads for years -- but I even like the Yamaha rubber heads better -- more realistic rebound, in my opinion. And now Yamaha has the DTX950 out with a new kind of head and even better soundbox.

So anyway, Drum Master 1, you were wrong to accuse me of taking money from Zildjian and Paiste. I don't play them, and I don't think I've ever even touched a Paiste.

I love all the songs you can play along with on the Yamaha electronics -- super sounds!

Drum Master 1 · #26 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 12:50 AM

Sorry my mistake, I was confused with the blue anchor text links that appear next to brand names in each post... The penny dropped when I also saw them on my posts.

I guess the site owners have to make a dollar somehow.

I'm definitely going to check out the Yamaha system, thanks for the tip.

**Der Trommler** · #27 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 01:31 AM

I hope you don't think I have put you on notice about trashing cymbal brands, thats not the case. I was talking about taking a thread that is very interesting reading and turning it into a flame fest or a two man war zone.

Everyone here is entiltled to their opinion about different equipment cymbals included.

That said I have to mimic your sentiment about Sabian cymbals, I prefer them over other brands although I do have Paiste Signature splashes and find them to be very nice sounding.

**dtxtremeiiispecial** · #28 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 02:01 AM

Drum Master 1,
Like I said in the thread, my hats off to you for the search you have made and the valuable information you have learned. Somebody should put it in writing and get it published, or maybe after you get the cymbal made. Best of luck!

Drum Master 1 · #29 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 02:35 AM

Point taken... but you should have just deleted the offending flaming posts rather than deleting the entire thread. I had planned to copy the original post into my new blog... But because I hate to rewrite stuff... it'll probably never manifest again.

Interesting comment about Paiste splashes.
I think I lost interested in Paiste and dismissed them out of hand, after hitting a couple in my local music store...Maybe I should have explored their full range a little further.

**Der Trommler** · #30 (**permalink**) 02-04-2010, 01:42 PM

I try to avoid deleting anything at all costs. It didn't get out of hand and both of you handled yourselves in a very classy manner and that was all I was looking for, so no need to do anything further.

I see what I think is your original post about cymbal chemistry on the end of the "Cymbal Alloy" thread up top.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Trommler

This is a very informative article about cymbal alloys I came across on Global Oneness (adapted from a piece on Wikipedia), and I thought it would be good information for our members to have.

Your post mentions Gold as being one of the elements used in the mix of modern cymbal making.

Yet not one current contemporary cymbal manufacture uses Gold... You are however quite correct, because Gold was used by the Sufi 600 years ago to make their cymbals. This was a closely guarded secret... Mostly because of the fear of being robbed by dishonest non believers and foreign invaders.

Recently by pure good fortune, and a dash of good luck, was able to have the inscriptions from the under side of a 300 year old cymbal translated. Because no two Sufi cymbal was the same, they would engrave the alloy composition and % under the bell of the cymbal for future reference.

Yes, there was a high volume of Gold used, because it adds a huge amount of sustain to the sound. No nasty overtones, and a complete lack of jarring or uneven harmonics.

In short the sound was orgasmic, rich with shimmering overtones. Nothing like you would hear from any contemporary cymbal.

I am sworn to secrecy about it's exact location, all I can say is Konya Turkey.

Commercially speaking, the cost using gold at today's prices would be prohibitive. However my current project is to save my pennies to buy ??? ounces of gold.

I will then contract a Turkish cymbal workshop to hand beat my new 25" cymbal using the secret Sufi formula I have in my possession.

Is that the thread you thought was deleted?

Anyhow, yes I was impressed enough with the Paiste splashes to trade my Sabian splashes before they arrived toward the purchase of the Paistes. Bright, crisp and clean finishing.