[Tainojim]

I still don't get the Native American Indian thing.

How did my people get involved with this feud?

As Mosses said in "The Ten Commandments" , "LET MY PEOPLE GO".

Take the word of a Stationary Engineer, no two cymbals sound alike.

To each his own with the sound of your dreams and not pipe dreams.

P.S. Mercedes parts are still more expensive than Ford parts.

But I don't know any relatives named Avedis. Not even from the outside.

[Drum Master 1]

Check out this thought provoking number: YouTube - Kansas - Dust In the Wind The words were taken from an old Indian poem...

Just beautiful... almost brings tears to my eyes, thinking about all the wasted moments chasing pipe dreams.

PS: That's true... but you end up having to replace a lot more FORD parts than you do MERCEDES.

[Tainojim]

That song always puts me to sleep. I'm not that old.

Go pick on someone your own age Bubbah.

You got the wrong kind of Indian. And my name ain't no where near Tonto.

Besides, we're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

[Drum Master 1]

Frankly I'm tied of hearing about Zildjian's so called secret formula. There is no Zildjian secret formula, it's pure myth... it's simply a marketing tactic.

Any first year student knows different metals have different heat co efficiencies (Melting Points). this is the temperature at which the metal flows best and amalgamates with other metals. It's simple 5th grade science, it's called "Metallurgy". And by the way... any metallurgist can tell in minites the exact percentages of any alloy... So there can be no secrets, right? It ain't rocket science.

Jessssss... I'm starting to believe in that other Myth... you know the one... "all drummers a little slow to catch on".

But like I said there's nothing like a good old secret formula for business... (look what Kernel Sanders Secret Herbs & Spices did for Kentucky Fried Chicken).

These Myths are dreamed up by the back room marketing boys, to fire up the imagination of a few ignoramuses who then foolishly perpetuate the rumor... Zildjian loves this stuff, it creates a mystique perception around the brand, and they sell more cymbals.

But lets be sensible and analyze the facts:

Is the Zildjian Secret Formula true or false?... No it's a myth (false) pure BS.
Have Zildjian improved over the years?... I certainly hope so, they needed to that's for sure.
Are there better sounding cymbals out there?... Unquestionably.
What are the Brand Names of better sounding cymbals?... It's a matter of taste, preference & personal opinion.

And here's mine:

There is literally hundreds of small workshops in Turkey hand beating cymbals in the same way the Selcuk artisans did hundreds of years ago. Although most of them sound rubbishy... there are one or two that just simply "Get It" and they sound amazingly balanced and musical (Key Words there guys).

However you have to be prepared to sift though them to find the gems. But in my opinion it's well worth the trip... especially if you intend fitting out your kit with new cymbals.

The trick is to start with a ride cymbal you really love (make sure it's a true pitch) use a set of pitch pipes as reference... then choose your other cymbals, making sure they all harmonize with each other, and also with your chosen ride, because that's your reference.

It's really that simple folks... I used to take small groups (3-4) through the back streets of Istanbul and surrounding towns, doing exactly that...

But now I have other distractions.

	Zildjian Cymbals Shop for Zildjian Cymbals at Musician's Friend

[Tainojim]

There is a thing called "Industrial Espionage".

When working for big industries you have to sign a waiver consisting that nothing at the work place is to be released and that anything that you create that is work related belongs to the company you work for.

Weather to call it a secret or not doesn't really matter as long no one gets caught mimicking their product. I'm sure the patent pending is the only thing protecting these companies.

I had to sign one when working for a power generation company, an x-ray machine devolving company and especially when I work at the air port. I had to get a 15 year FBI background check to be able to work at these places.

P.S. Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

[dtxtremeiiispecial]

As usual, Drum Master 1, you offer no sources to back up your statements. What's your source for the information that Zildjian has no secret formula? Let me guess. It's you.

How do you know for certain that Zildjian has no secret formula, a formula that would include specialized heat treatment of the metals? You don't. The exact percentages of metal in an alloy can be found, but the heat treatment cannot, and it makes all the difference. Thus, there is a secret formula, one you don't know. This is elementary, but you don't get it.

You're dead wrong about metallurgy being fifth grade science. I taught 5th grade science for a long time. Par for the course for you.

And now you're starting to believe that "all drummers are slow to catch on." Actually, Drum Master 1 (why did you choose that name?), you are slow to catch on. You don't care about drummers, either.
And you owe the drummers on this forum an apology.

I guess all the drummers who have used Zildjians all these years have been idiots, compared to you.

You talk the talk of the Drum Master, but you don't walk the walk. I challenge you to back up your statements with sources other than yourself.

	Zildjian Cymbals Shop for Zildjian Cymbals at Musician's Friend

[Tainojim]

All companies have their so called secrets.

I do know however that Zildjian is the oldest company in the world.

Let's not start to bite each other over frivolousness.

Maybe you guys can settle this in the drum battle arena.

In the end, you'll end up shaking hands as all drumming siblings do at DSC.

	Zildjian Cymbals Shop for Zildjian Cymbals at Musician's Friend

[Drum Master 1]

Wow dtxtremeiiispecial what can I say dude, you said it all.

That was some emotional reply... You obviously use Zildjian cymbals... which is great, they make good cymbals... just not the best... But that's only my opinion, right?.

I can't quite work out though if you're a retailer with a vested interest in the Zildjian brand, or just some immature kid who resents having his beliefs challenged.

But either way, I'll resist resorting to personal insults, and I promise not to attack your firmly held opinions... I obviously struck a sensitive nerve.

You have to agree though that every one is entitled to believe what they want...
But I can understand when some one comes along and shatters a myth, you only have two options:

1. Reject it out of hand, because if you don't, you may have to re-examine other firmly held beliefs.
2. Go back and research the origin of the myth, and find out who and why they started the rumor.

It's a bit dangerous having rigidly fixed opinions, because you have nowhere to go when those beliefs get busted. Personally I like to keep an open mind about everything, but when I do voice an opinion it's based purely on personal experience.

As for quoting sources, I don't much like the thought of that idea at all. For example; how can you trust that source?... after all, you may be just repeating someones misguided belief. You then become responsible for perpetuating a myth. Now is that a smart thing to do?

So lighten up a little.
By the way, you're not a Virgo by any chance?

I wish you well with all your endeavors.

	Attack Drumheads Shop for Attack drum heads at Musician's Friend

	Zildjian Cymbals Shop for Zildjian Cymbals at Musician's Friend

[Tainojim]

I don't like where this is going. Apologies all around are required to tone this down a bit.

Respect is earned, not given.

[dtxtremeiiispecial]

The first apology needs to be made to the drummers on this forum for saying "all drummers are a little slow to catch on."

You have learned previously, Drum Master 1, that I play electronic drums and cymbals. You just don't remember, do you?

OK, I got a little out of line, I'm sorry, but I think the moderators need to stand up for the drummers on this forum.