New drums or upgrade?

TheOgre · #1 (**permalink**) 01-22-2012, 07:12 AM

Hi,

I am wondering if it is wiser to upgrade my drumset ( tama imperialstar) with a new snare and cymbals, or buy a new drumset.
I would only have to buy new hihats and a ride since I 'upgraded' the rest already.
My main issue is; my budget is about 1000 euro's, and if I buy a new set I want to hear a clear quality difference compared with the imperialstar. And I'm afraid I'd have to get a bigger budget to do that?
Or if someone knows awesome heads that would make my kit sound a bit better; let me know please

Gus · #2 (**permalink**) 01-22-2012, 06:52 PM

New heads and new cymbals, though the hats are fine.

**skinslapper** · #3 (**permalink**) 01-23-2012, 10:42 PM

I'd put some evans g2's on the rack toms, ec2 on the floor, g1's for the reso's, eq3 on the bass. I had that on old poplar drumset and it sounded darn good for the price.

However, my sonor force maple kit does sound better, but that's why it cost more. Get a new snare, cymbals and heads. When the time comes to upgrade the set, you wont need to ask if it's appropriate. You'll just know.

TheOgre · #4 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 03:22 PM

Alright I'll do that, thanks

TheOgre · #5 (**permalink**) 01-26-2012, 06:25 AM

Oh one more thing, and it will probably sound stupid

but Are you supposed to change the bottom heads of each tom as well after you bought them? Or doesn't that change anything. And if so; put the same heads on the bottom as the ones you used for the top? Or are there special 'bottom heads'?

drummertom · #6 (**permalink**) 01-26-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOgre

Oh one more thing, and it will probably sound stupid

but Are you supposed to change the bottom heads of each tom as well after you bought them? Or doesn't that change anything. And if so; put the same heads on the bottom as the ones you used for the top? Or are there special 'bottom heads'?

You can start with the resonant (bottom) heads you have to see how they sound with the new batter (top) heads. Tuning is the most important. There are of course manny methods out there for tuning drums.
I start by using a "drum dial" to get the heads at my desired tension (pitch) on the batter head. I like the "phased sound", where the pitch slightly lowers after the initial attack. I place the drum dial in the middle of the drum head as I bring the heads up to the desired tension/pitch. I tune the batter heads first. They sound good at 80 psi with about 5 psi lower for the resonant head at 75 psi. Then I fine tune the head to the same pitch at each individual lug. And finally, I check the overall tension to make sure I am still in the original range (pitch=80/75 psi). Of course you can choose any tension or pitch that you like and what sounds good for the drum. Albeit, this is a consistent method to have your drums always sounding exactly the you want. No guessing.. Perfect. For more information and other methods of tuning, google "The Tuning Bible". Hope this helps.

butter · #7 (**permalink**) 01-26-2012, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummertom

You can start with the resonant (bottom) heads you have to see how they sound with the new batter (top) heads. Tuning is the most important. There are of course manny methods out there for tuning drums.
I start by using a "drum dial" to get the heads at my desired tension (pitch) on the batter head. I like the "phased sound", where the pitch slightly lowers after the initial attack. I place the drum dial in the middle of the drum head as I bring the heads up to the desired tension/pitch. I tune the batter heads first. They sound good at 80 psi with about 5 psi lower for the resonant head at 75 psi. Then I fine tune the head to the same pitch at each individual lug. And finally, I check the overall tension to make sure I am still in the original range (pitch=80/75 psi). Of course you can choose any tension or pitch that you like and what sounds good for the drum. Albeit, this is a consistent method to have your drums always sounding exactly the you want. No guessing.. Perfect. For more information and other methods of tuning, google "The Tuning Bible". Hope this helps.

Drumdials and tension watches don't measure in psi. Psi stands for "pounds per square inch" and is a measure of pressure. Tension watches don't actually measure tension (ironically), which still wouldn't be expressed in psi. Tension is shown as newtons, but tension watches actually measure distance. The dial shows the distance between the base of the tuner and the drum head, measured by the needle being pushed into the tuner when placed on the head. As more tension is added to the head, the needle is pushed farther into the tuner, causing a higher reading. If you placed the tuner on glass or wood the distance would be zero, but the reading would be high so the dial is actually numbered backward. Just wanted to explain that. It does make me wonder how much pressure a drum head could handle!

To the OP: Definitely replace your resos. Head choice makes an extraordinary difference in kit sound, but it isn't complete without the bottom half. If you replace the batters and play a bit, then throw on new resos, you'll realize how important they are.

Good luck and happy drumming!

drummertom · #8 (**permalink**) 01-27-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butter

Drumdials and tension watches don't measure in psi. Psi stands for "pounds per square inch" and is a measure of pressure. Tension watches don't actually measure tension (ironically), which still wouldn't be expressed in psi. Tension is shown as newtons, but tension watches actually measure distance. The dial shows the distance between the base of the tuner and the drum head, measured by the needle being pushed into the tuner when placed on the head. As more tension is added to the head, the needle is pushed farther into the tuner, causing a higher reading. If you placed the tuner on glass or wood the distance would be zero, but the reading would be high so the dial is actually numbered backward. Just wanted to explain that. It does make me wonder how much pressure a drum head could handle!

To the OP: Definitely replace your resos. Head choice makes an extraordinary difference in kit sound, but it isn't complete without the bottom half. If you replace the batters and play a bit, then throw on new resos, you'll realize how important they are.

Good luck and happy drumming!

Thanks for the explanation "butter". Regardless of the actual units, IMO the Drumdial serves as a great reference device for tuning the heads consistently everytime.

Tuning drums to obtain a particular sound is very subjective. That said, I agree, if there are funds available it is a good idea to replace the resonant heads at the same time as the batters, especially if the resosant heads are old.
During my search for the perfect heads/tuning, I read numerous reviews I decided to go with Evans heads. I investigated all different combinations, which was a little pricey. The drums where new (Ludwig-Remo heads) so I started with the original resonant heads and new Evans G2 batter heads. Then I went to new G1 resonant heads. I also tried swapping the G2s and G1s. Still too much ringing. I ended up with Evans Onyx Hydraulics batter and resonant heads. Yes, the hydraulics are not as loud, but I mike them anyway. With compression and a touch a reverb they really sound great.

butter · #9 (**permalink**) 01-29-2012, 09:47 PM

Did you try anything other than Evans? I haven't experimented much with different heads within brands, but of those I've tried (Remo, Evans, Aquarian), I have found single-ply to be my favorite. Batters tend to need replacing more often obviously because of the thinner head, so I don't use them often except for recording. I think 2-ply heads sound too dead, but the durability is hard to pass. Evans have been good for me on all except snare batters... Especially that reverse dot head. I hate it

I prefer Aquarian personally, but I'd never play Remo again. I haven't tried the hydraulics, but I have always heard them criticized for lacking versatility. What do you think as far as straight sound without effecting?

Btw, sorry if I came across as demeaning in my last post. Please excuse my pedantry, I totally got away from the point of the thread. Drumdials are great for tuning!

**skinslapper** · #10 (**permalink**) 01-30-2012, 02:44 AM

Typically you're resonant head should be thinner than your batter. Evans g2 is 2 plys of the film a g1 is made of, so twice as thick. As stated try your stock heads but if your toms aren't singing, try some new reso's. You'll probably want to replace them once a year.