[gyutae]

I think in the future, more and more drum playing in music will be replaced by drum loops and drum machines with the increasing popularity of hip hop music, trance, and other styles than rely more on synthetic beats.

Does this mean that you and I are out of a job? No, not necessarily. I just think that the times will change and drummers will be have to be super competitive to get the jobs and gigs.

Any thoughts?

[Davenhurst]

Lots of thoughts....

For a start - what do you mean by "drum playing in music"? Certainly in popular music or "manufactured" music, loops and synthetic drumming are used loads already. It's cheap and programmable and the result is often decided before the process. In that case, I have to ask the question, is that really "music" in the truest sense?

Ther will ALWAYS be a call for people who make noise for noise's sake, maybe they won't make a living from it but like attracts like and someone who thrashes a guitar because they can't help themselves will be attracted musically to someone who bashes wooden cylinders and metallic discs because for some reason they have to. It's just the way humans work.

Maybe I'm digressing, but I think the divide here is huge...

A lot of "artists" use sampled drums on record but then get a live drummer in for tours. Why? Many reasons I'm sure. Looking at it cynically I'd say it ticks the "cred" box, like using a standard string arrangement on a pop song. Instant cred, and usually rubbish. Coming from a slightly less harsh angle I'd say the artist wants the feel of a real drummer when they perform live. But even then the motives are questionable.

Take someone like Tool, and Danny Carey. His drum parts could be sampled and sequenced with no trouble, but the fact that all the drumming is his, and is so precise, makes it special. I'd go so far as to say his playing is bordering on disturbing (it's certainly dark) because it's SO precise, there's something extra in there somewhere because it's all about performance. That will never be replaced.

If you feel like you're competing for a drumming "job" then I'd argue you're better off without the employer. Get with like-minded folk and concentrate on what's important about your playing.



(Darn - I'm quite drunk, all the above is meant in the spirit of friendly discussion)

[skinslapper]

I feel that ultimately its not necessarily about how great you are but how interesting. Meg White is not a great drummer but she's part of an interesting musical concept which is enjoyed by many.

I feel that too much emphasis is put onto people "faking" music so to speak regarding samples and loops. If what you're doing is being enjoyed by many then good for you.

There will always be a place for live drummers as they can be interesting to watch by many and attract the attention of the audience in different ways to electronic acts. I've seen some drummers in my time that were completely boring, not very good and let the band down probably more than zoom rythm player would have.

[Davenhurst]

Originally Posted by skinslapper

I've seen some drummers in my time that were completely boring, not very good and let the band down probably more than zoom rythm player would have.

Right on.
..

[DustFerret]

While theres nothing wrong with drum machines, and such, I think that the pop and hip-hop craze will die out. It always ebbs and flows, and it's time to ebb soon. In the 70's you had disco, in the 80's you had all kinds of crazy crap, in the 90's you had the boy band craze, and now it's hip-hop that's sweeping the nation. Why have styles like jazz, rock, blues, funk, and the others never died? Because it's true. It may not be the bigest thing in the world, but it'll never leave.

[Davenhurst]

90s also had a massive, massive grunge movement - and a lot of that was great.

Have you heard Big Black? 3 guys on guitars / bass and a drum machine chugging out rock beats. And it rules! It's just done in the right way, you know? Anything can work, depending on who's at the controls.

All sorts of music survive, I'd say usually the absolute cream of the crop is hard to define anyway. People who say that funk will always survive, for example, most probably have a particular affinity with a record or band from their past who perhaps helped define or redefine "funk". Saying that though, how many rubbish bands will there be who fall under the same description? Lots.

"Pop" will always be there, but in what sense? On one hand you could refer to pop as bland, manufactured crap designed to bring in the bucks. You could also define it based on the merits of the writing of a short, snappy and structured song. One negative, one positive.

Take R&B as another example. I'm not exactly an old man, but even I remember when R&B referred to some old dude who sang about the times of prohibition and gave his guitar a woman's name. Now R&B refers to a bunch of talentless idiots talking aggressively and way too fast about what they've got round their neck, or how many "hos" they have in their "*****mobile" or whatever. That's just my take on it though.

It reminds me of the Irish comedian Dylan Moran who was doing a piece about music and the origins of certain styles. He observed that a lot of original blues artists (we're talking proper Delta blues here) would basically sing about what they didn't have - be it money, food, love, rights..... Now musicans that claim to be making music founded on those origins are screaming about how much bling they have and how much firepower they're carrying. I don;t know, maybe it's a success story? Doesn't seem to add up though.

Anyway, my point is that music is true, and that's about as far as you can take it. There will be a convincing arguement for any style being valid and the same style being invalid. So when it reaches that point you have to start getting more detailed.

[full metal]

I think the one thing that drives me crazy in some of the rap and R&B comunity is taking really great songs from our past and totly scruing them and making them sound like sh*t.

take a grate song Crazy train by ozzie, I had a mix cd I was playing with my wife one day and had it on there and she was like I know this song and as it kep going she looked at me and was just like what the hell is this,
she had no Idea that it was an old ozzie song she just thought it was a rap song.

Not to offened anyone but I am happly waiting the great hip hop death, yea it will always be around but just not as strong, and the return of rock, and yes we are getting there.

I think a lot of jobs are going to open up for drummers again and things will be good.
I also have to agree and say that R&B isnt what it was based off of, I really like real R&B not the guys that can talk really fast like the micro machine guy and throw some crappy music behind it and call that their hertige.
SORRY but that aint it.
some of the music that they play on the raido today makes me scared to ever turn it on with my kid in the car and the worst part is he is going to be exsposed to it at some point wether I like it or not.

Iff they want to bring back some great music bring back motown
aritha franklen, the temtations, smokie robison.
that is great music.


I know it sounds like I am putting down rap and R&B and maby in a way I am but lets at least here some real music not just some jumbled up crap and sell it.

sorry had to get that out.

[DustFerret]

The other thing is the effect it's had on society. Alot of it is wide-spread promotion of gang violence which is a HUGE problem all over the world. Whether rap fans deny it it is true. As a high-school sudent, about 65% of the kids walking around school, are talking loudly about how "pimp" they are or how "gangster they are. Being the quieter, smarter one in the back of the class, I'm always the brunt of the jokes.

[skinslapper]

Hip hop is like any genre. There's the good and there's the downright terrible. I'm not a fan of hip hop but every so often something good will come out and really catch my attention.

Lets not go into the debate of which style is more evil than others. Lets face it, all artists are hethans.

[full metal]

yea I agree with you there, I can honsetly say that rock hasnt been the good boys either with some of the things the have done in the past.

but hey at leat they wernt talking bout killing everyone or any of that other crap.

but getting back on topic I really dont think that drum machines are going to take over.
there are just to many things that a real drummer can do that sound a lot more real then any drum machine will ever be able to do.
but on that note it wont be that much longer either before they catch up.
just like electric drums, I rember when they were huge and sounded really bad, now I bet you could listion to an album and not even know that was what the drummer was playing on there.

technolidge is catching up quick and it is just going to be a matter of time but we will never be replaced.