I need tips on gear... And practice methods

ded548 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 05:49 AM

I've been playing for about 15 years, but I've always had the same old beginnners set. I'm pretty good at keeping rhythm, and I'm moderately fast using my old single bass pedal.

Recently I decided that I want to get more serious about drumming and bought a cam driven double bass pedal, a new cymbal stand to replace my old stripped out stand, and a new snare that makes me happy every time I hear it. $600 later I remembered how expensive this stuff can get... especially when you don't make the right choices. I only have a beginners pack of cymbals that were purchased back in '96. They're the old Scimitar line of Zildjian, and they are and always have been the wrong sound that I've been looking for. My hi-hat sounds like someone concaving a car fender with every stroke, and the rock/ride must have been designed by a tone-deaf shoe repairman ('cuz it's just about as musical as a penny loafer).

My goal is to retrain myself to play the drums well, and with a double bass pedal, and some good cymbals. I've more recently discovered that I like some newer music and enjoy some of the beats that I've heard in the last two Avenged Sevenfold CDs. From what I understand, most real drummers don't see any diffuculty in what "The Rev" (drummer from A7X) does in any of his songs, but truthfully I see these beats as very difficult feat.

My two needs from the kind people here:
• I need recommendations on how to begin training my left foot properly for my new pedals (I can't maintain anything half decent sounding for more than four beats with my left), and possibly the names of some of the rudiments that are popular in metal music.

• Also need recommendations on a good cymbal package to try out. I have a Guitar Center local to me, so I can try out the cymbals to see what they sound like, then find them online for cheaper if needed. What kind and how many cymbals would I need to start learning some more impressive cymbal effects to tag along with the new skills I'm improving? I imagine I'll need a ride, crash, fast crash, hi-hats, splash... but I see these kits with like 5 - 10 cymbals and can't help but wonder if it's really needed...

I'm obviously not going to spend a bazzillion dollars on a cymbal set, but something decently cheap and used were presented to me I might consider a used set.

mind_drummer · #2 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 10:22 AM

Hi man !

Wish you a warm welcome.

For improving your left foot playing, a friend had lessons with Flo Mounier and what Flo told him was to play with your left the same thing that you play with the right. That's what I do too, I mean, I try to keep at least 5 - 10 min. per two days just for playing basic grooving beat only using the left foot on the slave pedal. Also what I recommend is to practice slowly (60 bpm) doing quarter notes with a metronome then increase sightly 5 - 10 bpm and keep going but also when you reach a bpm level (if increased for example like 30 bpm) then begin to do the inverse, decrease the tempo. Rudiments for the feet are singles (obviously), doubles and paradiddle and paradiddle-diddle. Practice Quads (RH - LH- RF - LF... repeat) and triplet with feet (RLR and LRL) also you can practice the ladder which is RH - LF - LH - RF.

As for cymbals, I like to go with ebay on know brands (mostly Sabian) but if you want very nice professional cymbals for the price of entry level one then check Dream Cymbals. You can actually hear the cymbal that you purchase on Front Range Bronze, Dream Bliss and Contact Cymbals. Vintage Cymbals If you, play metal then go with the thicker one in the Contact or Energie Series.

Good luck

ded548 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 07:36 PM

Thanks for the response.

I find that I can do paradiddles, flams, and triplets are pretty easy for me, but I'm not very clean at playing them along with a 16th beat at the same time. I guess it's all in practice.

As far as cymbals, I'll have to keep looking

CJDG · #4 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 11:10 PM

You said it ded548... practice. I strongly urge the use of a metronome for practicing. Mind_drummer's suggestions were spot on. If you find that you are not playing them clean then realize you might be playing way too fast from the get go. Slow it down and then build up. You
may find that you prefer playing double pedal slowly with the heel down and then playing fast
with heel up... etc... there are lots of theories.

As far as cymbals go. I picked up this set myself and was not disappointed. Buy Wuhan WUMLX-SBOX S Series 4-Piece Cast Cymbal Pack at Musician's Friend
Wuhan is either loved or hated... I havn't heard many people say they sound "ok." I am gonna try to put a recording up.. not sure if this place has room set aside for that but if it doesn't I have some files hosted here with some rough work.
CJ-EX.mp3
This project is one that I worked on with a few other people online. The whole basis is a clip of John Bonham playing drums... So I start with that file right away, then it jumps to just his track, then it jumps to just my track with a solo I did at the end for fun. But during the solo you can hear how the cymbals sound.

Another with more cymbals though..
perf_DG_nolead.mp3
I did this one with a guy online.

CJDG · #5 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 11:12 PM

Wuhans are impacted pretty hard by stick type... but I use the Vic Firth Buddy Rich model which seems to make them sing... They just seem to mesh well with many different styles of music.

*Edit*
Oh... one point I forgot to mention. You may want to check for brands that produce cymbals whose sound is very consistent... Wuhans can be hit or miss sometimes... so if you play one the next may be a little different. Hope this helps.

ded548 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:02 AM

Great suggestions. I'll have to give them a personal test before purchase, but I like the sound of them alot. I'm not sure what's missing from the sound. I don't know how to describe the sound I'm looking for, but it seems like I'm never happy with the sound of cymbals.

I have heard some great sounds from Paiste, but for the price of one of the Paiste cymbals I've liked I could get a 5 peice Zildjian set.

CJDG · #7 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:10 AM

Check this link out.
Perfect Cymbal Setup
Some good information that can help... If you get a good description of what you are looking for
let us know...

ded548 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-04-2008, 04:08 PM

I went to my local shop and bought some used Sabian B8's Yesterday. I got both hats (exactly the sound I had in mind) for $60; in perfect condition, and they had a 10" Sabian B8 Splash from the same kit for like $20 so I grabbed that too. Between that, a drop-clutch, new sticks, and splash mount I spent $150. Not too bad for what I got.

Now I gotta learn how to get quick with the clutch, and get a nice sounding cymbal package to mesh with the new B8s.

Anyone have any experience with the B8 line? Recommendations of something that sounds nice along with it?

CJDG · #9 (**permalink**) 02-04-2008, 07:57 PM

I had the 14" B8 Hi-hats when they first came out. I needed something and didn't have a huge budget. They did the job and sounded good... but somewhere along
the line I think Sabian changed the way the B8 line was made. They just didn't sound good like how they first came out. I don't know if it is just my perception of the situation or what..

I ended up with mixed cymbals during that time frame... and changed the B8 for a used Sabian sizzle hat set. I wish I could give you recommendations on matching cymbals and all.. but your best bet is to stay within the line I think.

I think there are two ways to approach cymbal selection. There are the kind of people who thrive on the cymbals blending together and the type who just pick what sounds good. I am the one who just picks up what sounds good... As long as I like the sound I am getting then it makes a good cymbal choice. I don't want my cymbals to blend I want them to be brash and cut through on their own. This is probably why I enjoy my Wuhan cymbals so much.

ded548 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-04-2008, 09:42 PM

I don't know enough about sound description to specify the sound I'm looking for, but when I hear it I know.

I don't know if the Hats I got are the older B8s or newer, but I loved the sound. I'm really looking for something to carry a higher sound of my open hat but carry for a few notes so I can make a similar sounds and still go nuts on the hat. Then I'm lookin' for a crash sound that can contrast that on an opposing spectrum.

I hate the blending sound some of these bands have. You may as well only have one cymbal... it sounds like identical "noise". Like "System Of A Down". They've got a nice cymbal sound with their Paistes, but I can only pick out five cymbal sounds out of his nine cymbals.

I guess it all depends on the style of play, and personal preference.