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Go Back   Drum Forum at Drum Set Connect > Drum Forums - All About Drums > Cymbals


View Poll Results: Who makes the most musical sounding Cymbal?
Zildjian 19 45.24%
Sabian 14 33.33%
Paite 9 21.43%
Meinl 3 7.14%
Istambul Agop 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:25 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


Your apology is accepted dtxtremeiiispecial but not necessary... like I said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion... and to believe in what they want.

That's called freedom of speech...

Just remember, people have fought and died so you can continue to enjoy that privilege.
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:36 PM
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dtxtremeiiispecial dtxtremeiiispecial is offline
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


I was out of line, so an apology is necessary, and it's to the forum as much as to you.

This has less to do with freedom of speech than with treating people well.

I take it you stand by your statement that the drummers here are a little slow to catch on, and I understand that you feel you have nothing to apologize for. Signing off this thread.

Last edited by dtxtremeiiispecial; 03-22-2010 at 10:51 PM..
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  #43  
Old 03-23-2010, 05:00 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


Easy gentlemen.

It has been said that these are only opinions, afterall there is no difinitive way to call one brand the best when quality of sound is solely in the ear of the listener.

BTW...I am of the firm belief that bass players are the slow ones not drummers.
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  #44  
Old 03-23-2010, 05:17 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


On another note, all cymbals makers have a secret formula or process they like to mention. I think that Zildjian uses it far more in their marketing than the others do and it has worked well for them.

Bottom line: doesn't matter who makes them, what they are made of or how much they cost. If they sound good, they are the right cymbals.
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  #45  
Old 03-23-2010, 05:33 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


Even Paiste cymbals?
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  #46  
Old 03-23-2010, 06:34 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


Manufacturers of musical instruments allocate a huge budget towards workshops, in store promotions, online video and TV promotions. And all are centered around a celebrity rock star that uses a given brand.

My point is, manufacturers know the power of subconscious suggestion and the influence of endorsements.

Case in point:
when Paiste (formally hot water cylinders manufacturers ) entered the scene with a big splash in the early 70's with millions to spend on promotion, it was huge.

Every music magazine you picked up, had Paiste Cymbals plastered on every other page, along with the top names in drumming at the time, proudly proclaiming Paiste Cymbals had the best sound.

As result sales went through the roof... even I got sucked in... but to be honest I was never really happy with the sound. But here's the weirdest thing... I bought them anyway, simply because everyone around me was saying...

"Ooh dude no question, they're the best sounding cymbals money can buy, hands down... every top drummer is switching over to Paiste"

Well sir, I was constantly agitated by their edgy tone, but I played them anyway...
Now's that for the power of advertising and pier pressure... it had made me doubt my own judgment.

But I came to my senses when I took my 5 year old son into the local music store for the first time. He rushed in, headed straight for the drums, picked up a stick and started whacking every cymbal he could see, and commenting along the way...

"Hey Dad, this ones loud... hey Dad, this listen to this one... hey Dad, this one sounds like our Church bell... hey Dad, pooh... this one sounds like our garbage can lid". You guessed it... it was a Paiste.

True story... Well OK, not quite... and somewhat exaggerated to add some color, but you get my point...
My kid was the only one who could stand up and say ... "The Emperor has no cloths"

The subconscious power of influence that celebrity endorsements and advertising bombardment has... sometimes means... the popularity of one brand above another has more to do with peir pressure, than what sounds good, and which is more musical, or not.

Meaning opinion, is a fluid and highly emotional thing, and it is dangerous for your mental health to have fixed or ridged opinions...

Opinions are inherently unstable, and are not a reliable gauge of what is good, bad or indifferent.

An opened mind is a much healthier state of mind. Yes, I have my own opinions... but they are as fluid as marshmallow.

Last edited by Drum Master 1; 03-23-2010 at 07:12 PM..
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  #47  
Old 03-23-2010, 07:28 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


I like Paiste for Jazz Playing. Zildjian for Rock and a combination of the two for other genres.

No Grunts Here about those two brands.

I wish I could afford a couple of Bosphorous cymbals. Maybe Next year.

When I started a 8 playing drums, the owner of the kit had Zildjians. At age 11, I got Zildjian.

Been a Zildjian and Paste man. Sometimes being a little unfaithful to the cymbal companies is O.K.

That's just me being me.
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  #48  
Old 03-23-2010, 09:24 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


Ive heard some great things about Bosphorous cymbals, but never actually heard one... I just might go looking out of curiosity.
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  #49  
Old 03-23-2010, 09:35 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


These cymbals are strictly hand made and there is a secret formula also.

This is not a joke either. These are some really serous cymbals.
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  #50  
Old 03-23-2010, 10:20 PM
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Re: Secret Formula For Cymbal Making Re-discovered


ZILDJIAN SPEAKS ABOUT ITS SECRET FORMULA:

"There is no secret formula," he explains with a hint of exasperation. "It's bronze: what they call B20 in the metal industry, which means it's composed of 80% copper and 20% tin, and you'll find that a lot of copper has trace elements of silver in it as well. There are other alloys of bronze used for making cymbals such as B8's (which contain 92% copper and 8% tin), B12's (where the proportions are 88% copper and 12% tin) and so on.

"B20 bronze is extremely brittle, especially with all that tin in it, but the larger proportion of tin is what contributes to the brilliance and sonority of the sound. Now if you tried to put together a B20 alloy just any which way, then heated it and rolled it, it would break up like a dry cracker. What the original Avedis discovered was a process for treating this alloy of copper and tin to make a casting that could then be heated and rolled repeatedly without breaking because the structure of this alloy was so malleable and ductile. The quality and power of these cast cymbals were unique, and local craftsmen dubbed him 'Zildjian,' which in Turkish means 'cymbal-smith.'

"So it's not the formula, but the process for treating the metals and making the casting that's been handed down through the generations, traditionally to the eldest male member of the family.”

Source: Zildjian Family History

Last edited by dtxtremeiiispecial; 03-23-2010 at 10:30 PM..
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