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  #11  
Old 11-04-2008, 12:41 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


You got it. Exactly what I was hoping for from the drumming community. Looks like Groove is King and Feel is the thing.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2008, 08:20 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


Personally, I would rather listen to a pocket groove drummer who "paints" over an athletic drummer who "screams." A wise talented drummer once gave me a bit of information that I will pass on (and is relevant for all instruments really).... you play even the notes that you don't.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:03 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


would have to agree feel and grove are primary, if that isn't there all the fills in the world aren't going to make the music gell. I recently played and sang lead on a song we did at church. Because I really hadn't had a lot of time to prep I wasn't all that confident, so I just played the beat all the way through left out the fills, and nobody noticed, including other memebers of the band.
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2008, 11:11 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


Quote:
Originally Posted by badassbilly View Post
i will add that i would rather listen to phil rudd of acdc than portnoy. though portnoy is awesome technique wise you don't tap your feet to it. thats why i always liked peart great groove and great fills.....

like was stated in the post before mine anyone can fill but a fill is just that. i've gone to many jams and a guy would get up there and do a short i will call it show off warm up. do some crazy fills and your like man this guy got some technique and then come to find out guy can't groove even in 4/4 lor 2/4 let alone even hear the 4... its the stuff between that really counts.

another perfect example is kenny aronoff.
I guess that is where I differ... I feel the groove from both drummers, more so in
portoy than rudd. Odd time signatures have their own groove... not everyone
is comfortable turning an 11/16 beat into one that grooves and can seamlessly move in and out of a 4/4 time signature. That speaks to me more.

If I had to pick a favorite drummer for shear groove though it would be John
Bonham... I just love throwing in a Zeppelin album and playing cover to cover.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2008, 11:57 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJDG View Post
I guess that is where I differ... I feel the groove from both drummers, more so in
If I had to pick a favorite drummer for shear groove though it would be John
Bonham... I just love throwing in a Zeppelin album and playing cover to cover.
Funny you mention Bonham....my son was given a song to learn for an upcoming recital by his drum teacher. I was surprised when the song he gave him is D'Yer M'aker. I looked at the 3 song sheets and thought 'man, this looks tough, I don't know if my son (9) can do it in the few weeks we have to learn it.'

Anyway, I've worked with him each night (along with his lessons) and he's already got 80% of the song down perfect (even with playing along with the CD). But....he plays it exactly like he reads it, so technique is good. But there's no 'feel'.

I finally sat down to tackle it last night and listened carefully to Bonham's playing. My son isn't adept (or experienced) enough (only been on drums a few months) to get 'feel' and 'groove'. But I got it.

There's a fill every once in a while and getting that 'feel' for it, the slight delay to add an effect, and match up with the other musicians and Plant's singing, it takes a certain experience to bring it out.

Once I approached the whole song and fills with that Bonham ‘feel’, it just sounds so much more alive. When my son does it, it sounds like a whole bunch of patterns and rudiments. It's interesting that he keeps asking me 'who's the fastest drummer?' and I keep telling him it's not always about speed, but 'feel'.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2008, 10:30 PM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pantera View Post
Funny you mention Bonham....my son was given a song to learn for an upcoming recital by his drum teacher. I was surprised when the song he gave him is D'Yer M'aker. I looked at the 3 song sheets and thought 'man, this looks tough, I don't know if my son (9) can do it in the few weeks we have to learn it.'

Anyway, I've worked with him each night (along with his lessons) and he's already got 80% of the song down perfect (even with playing along with the CD). But....he plays it exactly like he reads it, so technique is good. But there's no 'feel'.

I finally sat down to tackle it last night and listened carefully to Bonham's playing. My son isn't adept (or experienced) enough (only been on drums a few months) to get 'feel' and 'groove'. But I got it.

There's a fill every once in a while and getting that 'feel' for it, the slight delay to add an effect, and match up with the other musicians and Plant's singing, it takes a certain experience to bring it out.

Once I approached the whole song and fills with that Bonham ‘feel’, it just sounds so much more alive. When my son does it, it sounds like a whole bunch of patterns and rudiments. It's interesting that he keeps asking me 'who's the fastest drummer?' and I keep telling him it's not always about speed, but 'feel'.
Sounds like you're doing a great job as a Dad and teacher. Helping your son with some Bonham, is a great legacy. And helping understand that speed doesn't mean thing if it doesn't feel right is AMAZING advice. I want to try and challenge this generation of drummers to internalize that concept. What would happen to the drumming world if that were the case. Obviously, FILLS, have their place even in the most complex of material, they are important. The trick is, making it musical, and FEEL right inside the song. Usually the best drum fills, guitar solos, etc.., are the ones with the most space, and melodic structure.

Groove on guys!!
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:00 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


wow. not much else to say I guess huh. but @pantera, iono how much your son knows or you but...if he really wants to excel in music I'd let him chose a song each night or whenever you guys practice and let him play along with it...preferably something without a drum beat to it so he doesn't just play along and copy cause that's basically sight reading IMO. For me playing with rap/hip hop and RnB stuff has helped me get back in that groove feel and compared to how I used to play when I was playing snare on teh drumline at school. Iono, since I graduated and haven't played sheet music for a while my set skills have loosened up and I just like ..."grooving" compared to more technical stuff and merely listening to copy.
That's prolly my favorite thing to do at the kit now, put the headphones in and just play...or take the headphones out and develop everything in my head, thinking of guitar riffs and sounds/notes that would work n stuff.
iono lol, just ramblin now I guess.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:31 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


I Believe Both Go Hand In Hand, If You Have The Feel The Fill Will Certainly Follow.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:41 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


Groove comes when comfort comes behind the kit. Once you truly know where the pieces are
on your kit... their limitations... how to hit them to make thousands of different sounds. Some
of this comes when you stick with one drum beat only, in your example D'yer M'aker, and
have him play it over and over again with the freedom to fill whenever he wants. What will
happen is boredom will set in with the beat and he will begin to experiment with making the
most out of the drums. Make sure he understands that a fill doesn't have to be something
that wears you out. A perfect fill can be nothing more than a simple floor tom hit. A fill can be
the absence of a snare drum for one measure. He will begin to get comfortable with that beat
and learn how to manipulate it and manipulate the groove.

Groove will come in time.... but if I ever had any advice to a new student it would be to
always start with the basics; bass, snare, hi-tom, floor tom, hi-hat, crash, ride.


A couple of handy tools to help is to record his playing and
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:48 AM
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Re: What's More important FEEL or FILL?


I forgot... one of the best things you can do to eliminate a big problem with learning drums
is to use a blindfold. You eliminate the eyes and you HAVE to use your ears... plus you are
forced to learn where the drums are.
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